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TOPIC: “Stream­lin­ing Karma” and Rais­ing Skill Levels

“Stream­lin­ing Karma” and Rais­ing Skill Lev­els 6 days 18 hours ago #4090

  • Akora
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Hello all,

I have a cou­ple ques­tions that arose from brows­ing an older forum topic and dis­cov­er­ing some dis­cus­sion that gave me pause.

1. One of the devs was talk­ing about how the Karma Table is basi­cally an arti­fact of a pre­vi­ous ver­sion and doesn’t apply now that Karma has been “stream­lined”. Can some­one clar­ify what this means for me?

2. On the topic of pick­ing up new skills, the same dev seemed to con­firm that pick­ing up new skills as a char­ac­ter is extremely cheap– he con­firmed that as long as a char­ac­ter is rais­ing a skill to a level that is lower than the cor­re­spond­ing Attribute value, the cost is always “1”. So for exam­ple if a char­ac­ter has a Cun­ning attribute of 8, he can raise Sneak from 0 to 7 ranks for a total of 7 Pas­sion Points. Is this correct?
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“Stream­lin­ing Karma” and Rais­ing Skill Lev­els 3 days 7 hours ago #4091

  • Anarak
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Hello again Akora

(woa, long time since a wan­derer came into these ruins)


Akora
I have a cou­ple ques­tions that arose from brows­ing an older forum topic and dis­cov­er­ing some dis­cus­sion that gave me pause.

One of the devs was talk­ing about how the Karma Table is basi­cally an arti­fact of a pre­vi­ous ver­sion and doesn’t apply now that Karma has been “stream­lined”. Can some­one clar­ify what this means for me?

I think I’m aware of the thread you’re talk­ing about but i’m obliv­i­ous to any tweak to the karma sys­tem. Mind you, there have been a few tweaks and small mod­i­fi­ca­tions to the sys­tem here and there, sadly they aren’t orga­nized in any sin­gle thread so you have to do some prospect­ing if you want to col­lect all of the offi­cial(?) albeit infor­mal errata, or just stick to the book or use your house rules.

That said, in another thread with a sim­i­lar time stamp Michael talks about karma and seems to stick to what is in the book (www.ironthronepub.com/forum/rogues-and-r…-me-understand-karma)

So, here’s what I under­stand of the karma sys­tem, as writ­ten in the book and as said by the dev: You jot down all pas­sion spent in char­ac­ter pro­gres­sion and trans­form it into karma. In the off chance your char is killed or retired, or if you are the ref and wants to play, you decide how much karma you want to spend to buy extra pri­or­ity picks.

Here’s what I think is the gist of what seems to be the prob­lem: You only spend the min­i­mum amount to obtain the desired pick (as explained by michael in the above linked thread). For exam­ple, if you want an extra E pick (to sup­ple­ment an F), you spend 11 points, even if in the table it says 1130. This means that the table range doesn’t make sense since all you need is the min­i­mum amount of points to buy each pick tier, not the max, and a more thor­oughly word­ing stat­ing you only spend points as needed.

Per­son­ally, I dis­like the karma sys­tem. I’m yet to use karma at all since i’m bond as the blade Mas­ter for my group and i’m yet to kill any off. But we do jot down all karma/​experience points. In the off chance a char­ac­ter is killed, the player will use his full earned karma point by point. Its less ele­gant but more pre­cise.

I’m sorry this isn’t a final answer, but in the end the only one who can truly answer is Michael.


Akora
2. On the topic of pick­ing up new skills, the same dev seemed to con­firm that pick­ing up new skills as a char­ac­ter is extremely cheap– he con­firmed that as long as a char­ac­ter is rais­ing a skill to a level that is lower than the cor­re­spond­ing Attribute value, the cost is always “1”. So for exam­ple if a char­ac­ter has a Cun­ning attribute of 8, he can raise Sneak from 0 to 7 ranks for a total of 7 Pas­sion Points. Is this correct?

Hmm, nope!

(pg 120121)
To raise a Skill by one level, sim­ply spend a num­ber of Pas­sion Attribute points equal to the cur­rent Skill level. Entirely new Skills may be pur­chased for 1 Pas­sion Attribute point, and begin at level 1. Keep in mind that when pur­chas­ing a new Skill at a level lower than the rat­ing the PC has in that Skill’s most applic­a­ble Attribute (as listed in the Skill’s descrip­tion), it will cost 1 point less than the Attribute’s rat­ing, though always
at least 1 point.

The word­ing is flawed, but what it means (and if you read the dev again) is this:

–All new skills cost 1 point. Always.

–When rais­ing a skill, it costs a num­ber of points equal to the cur­rent level. e.g: 1 to 2: costs 12 to 3 costs 2. etc.

UNLESS

Your defin­ing attribute for that skill is higher than your cur­rent level (which at lower level it mostly always is), in that case it costs 1 fewer point to a min­i­mum of 1, until you reach a skil rat­ing equal to your defin­ing attribute.

I’ll quote Allan from the thread where they also talk about karma, and which is ver­i­fied by Michel (www.ironthronepub.com/forum/rogues-and-r…dvancement-questions)

Allan
My take on the page 120 part is;
Attribute level 4, new skill, no lev­els
Point One costs — 1
Point Two costs — cur­rent level (1), so 1, as this is lower than the attribute 4, it would be –1, but always at least 1, net result = 1
Point Three costs — cur­rent level (2), so 2, as above –1 due to lower than attribute, = 1
Point Four costs — cur­rent level (3), so 3, the skill is now going from level 3 to 4, and the rules say, ‘at a level lower then the rat­ing’. Well for me the skill is now going to be equal to the attribute, so no –1, net cost 3.

So 100% of the time it costs 1 point to learn a skill lvl of 1; 99%* of times it will cost 2 points to go from 0 to 2 skill rat­ing. 95%* of the time it will cost 3 points to go from 0 to 3. Then it starts to 2/​3, 3/​4, and so on.

So for your cun­ning 8 guy buy­ing sneak:
It costs 3 points to go from 0 to 3
2, 3, 4 and 5 to go each step from 4 to 7
and a reg­u­lar 7 points to go from 7 to 8, since you’re buy­ing a skill to the same level as your attribute and thus not eli­gi­ble for the –1 dis­count,
for a total of 24 pas­sion points to go from 0 to 8.

Hope it helps and hope i’m not wrong, some­times the lan­guage bar­rier play tricks on me, so if some­one else can cor­rob­o­rate all the bet­ter.

*(wild but arguably safe % speculation)
Last Edit: 2 days 11 hours ago by Anarak.
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