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TOPIC: Why 12’s

Why 12’s 3 years 2 months ago #3973

  • KiwiGM
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Hi Guys, TROS was one of my favourite buys a few years back and I’m amazed I hadn’t found this ear­lier. I picked up a copy ear­lier and will have a proper read through as soon as I can — the only things I ini­tially picked up on my skim was the use of a TN7/​d12 sys­tem and that attrib­utes weren’t used when one was skilled in in some­thing. Do I have this right, and if so why use a TN7 on D12 when a TN6 on d10 yields the same prob­a­bil­ity of suc­cess (50÷50 per die) exclud­ing MP/AP’s where the vari­ables TN change a lit­tle for the bet­ter over TROS due to the extra suc­cesses afforded by d12’s.

Do I have this right? Cheers all!
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Why 12’s 3 years 2 months ago #3974

  • Michael
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Hello and wel­come, KiwiGM! :)

You have it right, though I’m not sure that you real­ize the full impli­ca­tions. I am sure that we already dis­cussed this, but I am now unable to find where, so I’ll say this:

The d12 is of course not nec­es­sary for Skills and Attrib­utes, where 7 on d12 is the same as 6 on d10, but it is very vital for weapon TNs. If you played TRoS you will know that many weapons, espe­cially those intro­duced in TFoB, where com­pletely unus­able, because they had ATNs or DTNs or both that were com­pletely unfea­si­ble. This was a result of want­ing to dif­fer­en­ti­ate weapons via their TNs on a d10 — and a d10 just hasn’t very many TNs that are still fea­si­ble. The d12 on the other hand has, due to its 20% larger range of num­bers, one more fea­si­ble TN than the d10, and this one addi­tional TN makes all the dif­fer­ence. With it, pretty much all weapons sud­denly become fea­si­ble choices (as they really were) while still being dif­fer­ent.

It of course helps that we prac­ti­cally intro­duced half-​TN incre­ments by giv­ing many weapons a +1 MP bonus or +1 AC for some attack forms.

So, in short: The finer gra­da­tion pos­si­ble with the d12 over the d10 ist the reason.
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Last Edit: 3 years 2 months ago by Michael.
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Why 12’s 2 years 9 months ago #4015

  • Akora
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I’ve won­dered for a long time if d20s might actu­ally fit a sys­tem like this bet­ter. The gran­u­lar­ity offered by the d20 allows for a much greater abil­ity to dif­fer­en­ti­ate between items, weapons, ranges, etc.
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Why 12’s 2 years 9 months ago #4017

  • Anarak
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I’ve won­dered for a long time if d20s might actu­ally fit a sys­tem like this bet­ter. The gran­u­lar­ity offered by the d20 allows for a much greater abil­ity to dif­fer­en­ti­ate between items, weapons, ranges, etc.

I’ve won­dered the same and fid­geted around with some house rules/​systems using a pool of d20 and i’ve come to con­clu­sion that using a d20 pool would be a bit of over­board.

Just a bit of ram­bling of why I thought so:

–Dice­pools are fun, or at least fun to some peo­ple (which I’m part of), but there’s a break­ing point where if it becomes too com­plex it starts being less and less fun up to the point its a chore. I feel like the big­ger the num­ber of dice the smaller should the die size be, spe­cially with vari­able tar­get num­bers. Keep­ing in mind ofc that there would be lit­tle or no point in using big­ger die size with­out vari­able TNs. Blade is already on the “hand­full” side of dice pools and a d12 is kinda the limit imo.

–d20’s feel a bit dif­fer­ent, the dice are slightly larger and the num­bers slightly smaller which could com­pli­cate the math flow. Dice up to d12 just feel bet­ter to hold in num­bers, rolling and acknowl­edg­ing what num­ber came up.

–There’s dimin­ish­ing returns in the amount of vari­abil­ity in dice. Extrap­o­lat­ing, lets say we were to use d50s or d100s and TNs would vary from any­where between bot­tom and top. My guess is that it would be com­pletely bro­ken with a whole range of use­less weapons and what­not. Of course, that’s an extrap­o­la­tion, but I feel a d20 under a sys­tem like blade would be too much of a gran­u­la­tion where the lower TNs would be god-​tier and higher TNs trash-​tier much like we expe­ri­enced in TfoB, even more so except because of over-​granulation.

(but then again I could be wrong or ymmv)

As a side note, I think d20 work pretty good in lower sized pools like 25 dice (like codex and conan), bet­ter than a sin­gle die like in d&d.
Last Edit: 2 years 9 months ago by Anarak.
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